Intro Music 

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Tyler Finn 

Why build a big tent community of in-house lawyers without restrictions on who can join? How do you manage the transition from in-house lawyer to founder? And can you keep space for your religious faith during the process?

Today, we are joined on the abstract by my friend, Shai Mahani, co-founder and CEO of In-House Connect. In-House Connect is a thriving community of more than 50,000. Is that right? 50,000? That's correct.

Shai Mehani
That's correct.

Tyler Finn 

Yeah. In-house lawyers, and it's the place that they turn for connection, education, and advancement. Shai has practiced data privacy, marketing law, and commercial contracts in-house at companies like Altice, Saks Fifth Avenue, maybe where he

buys his classy blazers like he has on, and Power Technologies. Earlier in his career. He spent time as a litigator and as a clerk for a superior court judge in New Jersey. Shai, thank you so much for joining me today for this episode of The Abstract. 

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Shai Mehani

It's a pleasure to be here. And now I'm thinking about my suits from the Sax days, but I don't think they fit me anymore. So I'm a little bit...

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Tyler Finn

That's because you've been bulking up, right?

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Shai Mehani

Yes, yes.

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Tyler Finn

Hitting the hotel gyms as you travel around the United States.

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Shai Mehani

That's exactly where you'll find me. But it's wonderful to be here. And thank you so much for the opportunity.

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Tyler Finn

Yeah, I'm excited to do this. And I'm glad that we get to do it in person in New York together. It's a lot more fun, I think being face to face on a glorified version of a zoom call.

All those those episodes are good, too. Okay, let's get started. I want to start with you with why you wanted to go to law school I don't ask that of every guest, but I think it's a good place for us to us to start
Shai Mehani
Yeah, so I wish I had an exciting story about like an uncle or you know some some transformative event Where I like, you know, I save somebody from a lot, you know from prison sentence or something. I have the most boring origin law school story. I You know in college. I was good at reading and writing. I did the poli-sci thing. And the next logical extension was law school. And that also made my mom really happy, which was a huge bonus. And I have a really funny story about why I picked the law school I went to, I went to Brooklyn Law School.

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Tyler Finn 

Yeah.

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Shai Mehani

And this is really embarrassing. I was, back in the day, all right, back in the day, there was a show called the apprentice 

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Tyler Finn

Sure, 

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Shai Mehani

Donald Trump 

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Tyler Finn 

of course 

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Shai Mehani

And I loved the apprentice. It was like the number one show at the time 

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Tyler Finn 

Yeah, really, I remember watching it 

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Shai Mehani

Right it was great like I I really enjoyed it and one and you know you remember The Donald was like in the middle he had you know he had an advisor on his right and his visor on his left 

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Tyler Finn 

Yes

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Shai Mehani

And the advisor on his left was a guy named george ross. 

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Tyler Finn 

Okay

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And he was like a real estate lawyer um for the trump organization and I Really like I don't know. I really liked george ross and I I like bought his book or something like that and I saw I saw that he was a adjunct professor at brooklyn law school. Do not do that folks at home. Do not do that aspiring law students. I never even got to take a course with him. He like stopped. He stopped being like an adjunct professor like before I got there. So that's why I went to law school in Brooklyn

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Tyler Finn 

Well, maybe you saw opportunity there In ways that the rest of us did not at that point in time 

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Shai Mehani

Something you know, we'll talk about this later on but yeah, I look back at my career It's a really funny or my career path or my whatever. It's really funny how like the dots they make no sense like in like in the moment they make zero sense but in hindsight I see a lot of connection interestingly enough but talk about that. 

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Tyler Finn

So you yeah you started I think that's actually common for a lot of people too so it's good for people to hear that sort of story from from someone like, you started your career you were doing litigation did you have any time idea at that time that you wanted to go in-house?

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Shai Mehani

Yeah, so I to be honest at the time it was 2010. It was fresh off like a huge huge recession, 

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Tyler Finn 

Right

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Shai Mehani

It was very difficult. Like I went to law school imagining the traditional path of going to you know, big firm making partner doing that whole grind and I got zero traction after like, you know, I had one I had one OCI interview Out of you know out of the summer and I totally messed it up because I it was before the days of Google Maps I'm really dating myself here, but I have like my map quest I'm going to this second round OCI interview my one like shot at whatever and I

whatever. And I have my map quest directions and like, you know how bugs bunny takes like the left turn, the wrong turn in Albuquerque. I took the wrong turn and I got to the, I got to the interview late and, and I was like, I miss, I truly missed like my chance at like, you know, that law firm, uh, cycle or that path. So I, I basically, I had to be scrappy and I, and I took what I can get, not to say that what I got or my opportunities weren't great and wonderful and competitive. I just had to be open to things, to paths that I didn't go to law school for. So at the time, I networked my way into a state court clerkship in New Jersey. And my judge was in the matrimonial division, funny enough. So I did matrimonial, I learned matrimonial law, the ins and outs of matrimonial law. 

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Tyler Finn

Is that mostly divorces and similar annulments? 

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Shai Mehani

Exactly. Divorce, I like to say baby mama drama, but there's none of that actually in the court. But divorce, alimony, child support, visitation, there's all types of stuff for non-married people, right? It's not just that. So I got really good at that and then from from the clerkship You know you make friends with the local attorneys or for the judge and I got I got set up with a great firm

Small firm doing pretty much everything focused on family law, but that was never like what I wanted to do I didn't I'll tell you on the I would drive I was living in Jersey City at the time and the and the office was in, it was in Morris County. It was in Morris County. And so I had like a long drive, and every day I would pass, I had like the most beautiful skyline of New York City. You know, right? Like, like. 

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Tyler Finn 

You get the best out, the right window or something. 

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Shai Mehani

Seriously, like my windshield was engulfed with this gorgeous view of this beautiful city, sky skyscrapers, and all this possibility. I was dying to work in that, you know, I was dying to work there and it was so close I could touch it, you know, I could touch it, but it was so far I could never couldn't figure out how to get across the river, you know every day I would drive back and forth and and finally I just got to the point where I was very unhappy Doing matrimonial law. It wasn't for me. I like when people are happy. I like to bring people together and I got really really lucky. There was a job posting for an in-house legal role. I had a friend from law school who was VP of legal there and I owe her like my life frankly because she helped me get my foot in the door and I had to get the job right. 

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Tyler Finn 

Sure. 

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Shai Mehani

Got the job and it was a commercial counsel position at a tech startup in New York City in those gleaming skyscrapers that I dreamed about and that was my big break and from there things really took off and I got back on the path. But there wasn't like a, I knew in law school I was good at contracts, I was good at corporate law stuff, but I wasn't like, I want to be in-house. Like it kind of came together pretty organically, I would say. 

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Tyler Finn

I like your story about being late to the interview. You remind me, I haven't thought about this in years. One time, everything goes wrong on the metro in DC. I'm like, 25 minutes late to an interview with at the time Senator Feinstein's chief of staff to interview for a position there. Of course, he held like 20 minutes for me for the interview. So I'm five minutes past when I was supposed to have completed the interview by with him. At the time, that's the sort of thing feels so important. And like it was that it was the door and and then of course Right, like I haven't thought about that in years until we sit down here and we talk about it And yeah, I love I love that story and I love how it wasn't even you know The company or it was just the possibility of being in New York that inspired you to take the next step, right. 

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Shai Mehani

I got to add to that story. I like show up to the interview. I'm late and the partner was such a jerk about it It was so mean like you so it was like their associate and like the partner and the guy is like He couldn't be more clear that this is a waste of time you know you blew it by not getting here on time and and and that was just so devastating but a learning experience, you know, you got to be on time and you know, I'm a very like everything happens for a reason Yeah, there's a lesson in everything and you know, there's no no bad results. Just good lessons

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Tyler Finn

Yeah 

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Shai Mehani

That was a wonderful lesson, but I really laugh that the guy was so mean He was so mean and I just I I caught up with somebody from his firm and I'm like is this person still here? They're like, yeah, and I'm like I told them the story they're cracking up But I digress everybody should be nice, you know, everybody runs late and you should be nice no matter what. 

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Tyler Finn 

Well and clearly you recover you know from being..  

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Shai Mehani

It all worked out. 

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Tyler Finn

Exactly I don't know if there are many law school students who listen to these But if they are they should they should listen to this one in particular. When you went in-house I Mean it sounds like you didn't have much in the way of expectations, but was it what you expected.

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Shai Mehani

It was it was wonderful to be honest going in-house. I loved it I so I got to join this tech startup full of like energy and excitement And you know new people and camaraderie in a way that I never Experienced before like I was a regular you know attorney yes, I I had clients. I had cases I appeared in front of judges. I dealt with adversaries I loved my colleagues, but like it wasn't the same. You know, you're off doing your cases, they're doing their cases and so on. I loved being a part of this, of being part of that company. It was just great. I didn't, I also was like, I guess we call that imposter syndrome right now. I didn't have any experience. I never redlined a contract before in my life even you know when I practiced I Didn't I I really was like very green and the person who helped get my foot in the door. You know it was a was a fantastic mentor and trained me beautifully and wonderfully And it was just it was a wonderful wonderful experience, and I'm very fond of those that first job Job. 

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Tyler Finn 

So where does in-house connect get started and how does that fit into the picture? 

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Shai Mehani

So when I when I was doing matrimonial law There's a big emphasis on networking because it's a small world in the matrimonial bars right all across the country Whatever state you are the matrimonial bar. Everybody knows each other. Everybody knows the judges and the judges knows you and I knew nothing. I was really nervous that I was gonna fail at this job, and I needed some like support, some friends, some, you know, I needed to have that network in place before I needed it. So I was super motivated to network and to go out and put myself out there. And…

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Tyler Finn 

 And you're a friendly guy. 

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Shai Mehani

I'm a friendly guy. I think I've become friendlier over time frankly, but I was committed to putting myself out there I was really I was really nervous that I had nothing to fall back on like that truly like why I started to to network and do and do my thing so There's the there's the ACC right, like groups out there Well, not as many as there are now and that's a whole that's a podcast episode in itself. I'd love to talk about that, but The there was the ACC and to be honest at the time I couldn't afford the annual membership like I just didn't I couldn't I couldn't do it And I found a meetup group It was called the New York in-house council meetup group right.

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Tyler Finn

Llike on meetup the..

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Shai Mehani

meetup.com

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Tyler Finn 

Yeah. 

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Shai Mehani

Truly on meetup like I googled it and it came up. It was New York in-house council meetup group. I thought it was like a, I thought it was like, you know, one of these zombie groups that, you know, that's just like floating out there that's inactive, but I clicked, and sure enough, it was active. It had active meetings, and it wasn't doing anything revolutionary. It was organizing Sealy panels, you know, at different law firms. People would sign up, they would attend, and then there would be networking afterwards, and I loved it, and the group organizer Screamed everybody he made sure that you are in-house So you know I was in-house. I got in I started to attend these events, and I loved it I really really enjoyed it, and that's when I that's when I first like got into networking that that meetup. They had a group it would eventually become in-house connect like we rebranded it it. 

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Tyler Finn

Interesting. Okay, tell us the backstory on that, right? How did that actually play out? People think that founder stories are you had this light bulb moment in the shower or on your run one day, and then you just decided that there was this huge inflection point and you're going to do it, and you raised a bunch of money and now it's happened. And in my experience, at least the founders that I've had on this, you know, podcast before, folks like you, that's not often the case. It's much more like what you're describing.

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Shai Mehani

I think I had one light bulb moment. So I bought the light bulb pack with one in it, not multiple, unfortunately. So I, so the first like year I was attending these meetups, right. Here's the here's like a tip. If you want to make friends and network, you have to do it consistently. And if you show up to the same like meeting, whatever it is, right, you will build a connection and a rapport with people. And that's when things get good. If you go once in a while, you're not going to really make an impact or presence. So I started to attend every every month, like I was a regular, and I got to know the group organizer. His name is Brian Greenberg, wonderful man Man, I love very very much And I told him like maybe six months after attending. I told him like look. I love what you're doing I want to help you run this group And I think I can help you organize events and do other stuff like there's so much more you can do with this with this Like concept so he and it's funny. He didn't like say yes, you're higher like you know on the spot I think he waited like maybe had he I think he was doing he was like running the group with somebody else and then that person ended up Relocating so he's like so a year later a year later He comes and he's like hey if you're still interested. There's an art. You know I would love to work with you I think you'd be and that's when that's when I started to get more involved, and this was this was 2016 

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Tyler Finn 

Okay. 

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Shai Mehani

I think I'm pretty sure because I had just gotten, so my first role in-house was with the tech startup, and then I knew things were, you know, tech startups are crazy, and that was a crazy tech startup, and I knew, you know, I wasn't feeling so secure about the future of the company, unfortunately, and I sought greener pastures, or so I thought, and I got a great, great job as a commercial attorney with Saks Fifth Avenue. 

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Tyler Finn

Yeah.  

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Shai Mehani

And I got to enjoy their fantastic employee discount Really wish now that I'm married that I still had it But it was a wonderful wonderful experience So when I joined Saks that just happens to be when I started to co-run the group with Brian. So then the next several years, I'm like two or three years later Yeah, I'm continuing to run these events where we're not making any money 

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Tyler Finn

It’s all in New York at the time. 

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Shai Mehani

All in New York all in person we added like we did a few mixers kind of like well You know what we do now, but only in New York. It was a lot more primitive I think that what we do now I have and I have a great story of our I think our second mixer, we had this big mixer planned it was supposed to be on the rooftop in like Soho this cool Can I in Soho rooftop it was December, but they had that I'm like you you know you have Heat lamps and and it would be covered and everything would be great. It'll be awesome. Don't worry so I get there and I see Firemen coming up and down the ice up and down the thing I see like the fire truck I'm like this cannot and not be good And I see like the event planner that we've been working with and they're all frazzled. They're all nervous, and I'm like what's going on. He's like the neighbors complained. We can't do it on the roof We're gonna put you in the basement, and I'm like Okay, okay, you know I'm like yeah, roll the punches. You know I had a lot of I don't know. I was just very calm about it.

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Tyler Finn

You drank your green tea that day.

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Shai Mehani

Seriously. Brian is like freaking out. I'm like, no, no, it'll be fine. Don't worry. And we had a great event. It was awesome. Nobody even mentioned the the rooftop or the bay. It was really, really funny. And the only money we ever made was the refund we got from the venue because it was supposed to be on the roof, but we got this move to the basement and I like I harassed them into giving us some money back So whatever we got back was the only money we ever made from this whole Endeavor. 

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Tyler Finn 

So when did it start to grow then and was that deliberate to say? Hey, we're gonna do some stuff virtually or maybe people outside of the New York Metropolitan area might be interested in this like how did the growth story happen? 

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Shai Mehani

So there was I would say there was like two steps. First, like pre COVID, there was a pre COVID step where I spoke to Brian and I'm like, look, we got a rebrand. You know, we're doing this great thing, but you know, we can't be the New York in-house council meetup group. That's not, you know what I mean? We need something a little bit more oomph. And he came up with the, uh, with the title or with the name in-house connect. He's a great marketing guy. I really, really miss him, and I'll talk about that. But, so I said, look, let's rebrand as In-House Connect, and let's go on LinkedIn. There's a lot more in-house lawyers on LinkedIn than there are on Meetup. You know, on Meetup.com. 

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Tyler Finn 

So you're kind of early to LinkedIn, actually, right? I mean, this is what, 20, is it 2017? 20.

Shai Mehani

I think, 2018, maybe, something like that. I could totally be wrong, but I think it's around then. And I said, let's rebrand, let's throw a summer mixer and a rooftop this time, and we're not gonna get kicked out. And we did, and it was awesome. So that was a big step. And then I also had this idea to basically cold connect with in-house lawyers in New York. Like, hey, you look like a good fit for in-house connect We do free CLEs and and social events in New York City for in-house counsel right to learn more And I personally would cold connect with people and that's how we grew like in the beginning and it worked beautifully like we suddenly started to see new faces that are at our events and and stuff like that So that was a big big turning point and then and I'm still like scratching my head. How do I make money? How do we expand? How do we grow? It was you know I thought about it a lot and I didn't see you know Any real any real way of doing it and it was hard, you know, it was hard to drum up revenue frankly In this state because we're not we're not like big enough to really like command a special presence.

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Shai Mehani 

Sure. 

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Shai Mehani

And, you know, it's more like the firms are doing us a favor by catering to us. So it's hard to make money like that. So the next big inflection point was COVID. COVID hit, I saw, I had, I had my, I think my one light bulb moment was, what if we took what we're doing in person, put it online, but because it's, because I have a lot more flexibility on the speakers And it's much easier for people to join What if we made what if we made must see CLE? Webinars. 

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Tyler Finn 

Sure. 

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Shai Mehani 

Llike what if the webinars were so good You know that I that it cannot be ignored that in-house will in-house I had a fun I was like laughing about this like what if in-house lawyers are talking about our webinars like they talk about the Super Bowl like Seriously, everybody talks about you right. It's funny. I was laughing. I had such a smile on my face. I remember I was home, like locked down and I'm like, this is a great idea. And that was my gold star. That was my guiding principle, frankly. And that's what I set out to do. And I'm like, this is what I want to do. This will, you know, if I can execute, we'll get a big enough audience and then opportunities will present itself and so at that point I kind of reach out to Brian and I wanted to move forward and he was kind of hesitant and we basically You know, I thought I think like it was a good opportunity for me to take over you know, he's a little bit older than me more advanced in his career in his life and he better for me to just start and run with this concept and that's what ended up happening. So from then, I had 100% control of IHC and charted a new path into uncharted territory. 

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Tyler Finn 

Yeah, this is great. One of the things that's been interesting to me about IHC, and I can see it sort of in the growth of the fact that it really took off with LinkedIn, with a lot of these virtual events with the webinars, the very open approach that you take, or what I would describe as a big tent approach I'm curious if that was intentional I'm also just curious If there were any or if there are any sort of like guiding principles that you have as you think about growing in house connect. Maybe you didn't have those and you know 2017, but I'm sure you do today. 

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Shai Mehani 

Yeah. It's a great question, I'm smiling at the big tent. Yeah, no Great question. I'm smiling at the big tent phrase. My thought was the meetup group itself was free, right? And so just keep this free. Like I wasn't, at the time, I wasn't thinking more than that. As I started to do more and more, I realized that keeping it open and easy, like make it easy for people to access, a lot of people can't navigate zoom You know

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Tyler Finn 

Sure. 

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Shai Mehani

And a lot like I didn't want to create any I didn't want to have any friction in our in our process So I really see it frankly as a strategic advantage

because there's a lot. You know there's a lot of groups out there That are membership based and they do great stuff They're excellent, but I can't attend their events and maybe you can if you remember, but I don't know right I I see it now as such a blessing that we kept it open And we kept it and we kept it open and easy for people to attend so I think at the time I was just staying true to taking the virtual taking the in-person concept and putting it online but certainly I

had I'm sure I had like numerous chances to make it membership only yeah I love I don't like I love that we're open and that anybody can attend our events Practically and I aim to to keep it that way who knows what the future holds. We'll talk about it. Yeah, I really love that Placement in the market so to speak. Mm-hmm. I love it from I love from a business standpoint I love it from a community standpoint. Yes, the the the once you get upon once you get above a certain point of audience on a webinar, the conversation like explodes. And it's wonderful, I love it. I love to see it, the people enjoy it, and it's a key feature of in-house connect. And it kinda, certainly wasn't my, you know, wasn't my, I didn't have a crystal ball. I only had that one light bulb, unfortunately. But I'm thrilled that we kept with it and things are the way they are today. 

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Tyler Finn 

Any other principles that you think about as you think about growing in-house connect or guiding you? Yeah, 

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Shai Mehani 

I mean number one is warmth and positivity. 

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Tyler Finn 

I like that. 

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Shai Mehani 

When I was doing the in-person meetups, I felt very strongly that I was the host me and Brian were hosts right yeah And people coming right you had regulars who would come and they felt comfortable because they're regulars But the marginal first for the marginal person who is attending for the first time I always like was looking out for them and like I knew the faces I knew the regulars And I knew the journeys and so I always looked out for people who were alone or who were like by themselves, I always made sure to talk to them, to introduce them, to make them feel welcome. Like that 100% was intentional. Like 100% was intentional. And I wanted to somehow bring that energy and that warmth to the webinars. It's a funny thing, like a warm webinar, you know, warm webinar, but I wanted, that's what I wanted to establish. And I didn't go to school for webinars. Nobody really taught me how to do any of this. And it just worked out really, really nicely. so warmth, warmth and positivity. Like it's a warm environment, it's a positive environment. Like I want people who are excited and inspired by their careers and curious like yeah, you know I'll talk about this later on i'm sure but I feel like a lot of people kind of take their careers for granted and they don't They you know, they work so hard in law school. Maybe they worked hard in private practice They got this job, you know, they're in-house or whatever wherever they are in their careers I I feel like this is your life This is what you're going to spend the vast majority of your time on this earth doing yeah make the most of it be the best you know be cutting-edge be Enthusiastic and excited and that's the other thing like I want to bring and I want to inspire people like truly must see CLE like come check out the CLE you will get better at redlining. You'll get you'll know what's going on in employment law You'll know what's going on with executive orders in AI and and contracts and you know, there's a whole host of things and I feel like that's lacking in the current CLE landscape. There's none of that energy or excitement. 

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Tyler Finn 

For sure, It's not, I mean, oftentimes you have great law firm partners who are coming on because I've listened to some of these CLEs, but it's not your typical law firm CLE which is, oh, this new reg came out and so we got to get on and you know do an hour webinar on and it's just going to be Focused on this and it's going to be very I feel like You encourage the guests or you encourage the panels to bring a lot more energy than you typically see out there in CLE content. 

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Shai Mehani 

We have a pre-call usually for every webinar because I want obviously I want them to be I want my speakers to be prepared I feel like it's not every sometimes we have I mean our average is 400 attendees per webinar It's a lot a lot of people in the format the way we you know use our zoom like it's a lot more Public and I guess transparent you could say so I want them to be prepared But I also you know I also want to coach them up I want them to understand like you can don't check your personality at the door. That's what got you, you know, that's what we want. We want that personality. So Definitely, it's something I'm intentional about and I kind of help my speakers bring out.  

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Tyler Finn 

I want to ask you in a second about when you went all-in on in-house connect But before we get there, you know something that I don't think many people know about you or have noticed on your resume or as you spent a period of time in there when you were getting started with in-house connect, let's say, doing like fractional work or working through Axiom. And the reason I bring that up is I'm curious how that informed your sort of approach to community or if that informed your approach to community at all? Because I guess I think it's easier to feel more secure when you've got like one full-time job and you know who your boss is and maybe it's for some big, it's for Saks Fifth Avenue and everybody knows what that is, right? Yeah, talk to us a little bit about that.

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Shai Mehani

I love that you, that you're asking me this question. I love the research. Tyler does his research for future guests. So it's a great question. I wasn't a fractional GC. I basically, I actually got laid off from Saks Fifth Avenue and that was a deeply transformational event for me. And that's because I really, you know, going from matrimonial to this tech startup, then to a company like Saks, I really was motivated to work hard to do my best. I wanted to be a great corporate You know employee and I really was into it and at the end of the day sacks wasn't doing well, right.

There was they had a huge huge round of layoffs and when that happened, I Like I didn't see it coming. I was a deer with a capital D. I You know the HR ambush yeah, I'm familiar with that But I was… 

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Tyler Finn 

I've been really off to and I was I like to be very open about that because I think it is actually Well, it was a very formative experience I did not like it, but it was a very transformational experience, too I wouldn't be sitting here without that so I am familiar with the like you know HR comes on and you're like oh Well, we shouldn't swear on the podcast, but like oh boy. This is not gonna be a good conversation. 

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Shai Mehani

I'll tell you, just because it was so memorable for me, I got a random meeting invite from the GC for a random office, and I'm like, okay, this must be a top secret meeting of some kind. So I go, and it's a clear glass office, and I see him, and I see the HR, and I'm like, oh, I like my manila, you know, I have my notepad to take notes. Anyways, it was super, super transformational.

Because it really, I hate to say it, like it removed my, my night, how do I say night, my.. 

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Tyler Finn 

Naivete. Yes, yeah. 

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Shai Mehani

I really felt like I felt like I became an adult after that after that after what happened you know I realized that like look You have to put yourself first Like I was I'm just super shaped like I really I felt like I gave it all for this company.

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Tyler Finn 

Yeah,

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Shai Mehani 

And I had to from then on I was like look. I'm protecting myself I put myself first I had some like random business ideas that I wanted to do and I didn't because I felt like it might conflict that was like out the window and that was super super super transformational for me so I forget I forget the… 

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Tyler Finn 

So Yeah, you go to axiom and… 

‍

Shai Mehani

So I signed up with axiom I know and and my axiom experience was really interesting not from the community building perspective, but from the Opportunity I had to work at different law different legal departments right you work for axiom or an ALSP and You get it. Let's say you have like a three or four month engagement And you have a few of those in a row you get to you know you get to work with a lot of people And a lot of different companies in a short period of time and that was a super eye-opening experience like I went from you know the tech startup had a culture Saks had a culture. I got to work at Casper Mattress. I would probably know him 

‍

Tyler Finn 

Jonathan, with the GC at the time, Yeah. He just got a new job, I think, today. Yeah. 

‍

Shai Mehani

He did. I was like, way to go, Jonathan. I hope to see him next week at the Miami IHC Mixer. So I got to work with him. I got to work with others who were fantastic and I loved working at the Casper, Casper Mattress at that time, it was awesome. So I got, so that was great. Then I went and I worked for Salesforce, and that was really, really interesting. I, it wasn't like what I expected. It was a lot more regimented. I never had a playbook before, I had a playbook now, and that was super interesting. And also, comparing and contrasting that culture, the Salesforce culture is very strong. They call their workforce an ohana, right. It's like you're a community or a family is what it means. And I never... 

Tyler Finn 

Hawaiian. 

‍

Shai Mehani 

Exactly, exactly. And I never experienced that before. And then when I went from there to Altice, which is Optimum Cable, I also noticed the contrast in cultures, in expectations, and so on. It was super, super, super eye-opening. So, like, that informed content and what in-house counsel really need, you know, and, like, what in-house counsel are going through. So I got to see a lot of different legal departments and a lot of different roles and people and how they, like, you know, manage their responsibilities. That's what was super eye-opening for me. Not necessarily the community angle, but still very, very important nonetheless.

‍

Tyler Finn 

Super interesting. Knowledge accrues and you can accrue a lot if you're shifting around and working at so many different places like that. 

‍

Shai Mehani

I think it's a tremendous opportunity. I also think industry knowledge is one of my, this is like one of my, I guess my second light bulb is the industry knowledge. Like, what separates in-house lawyers from each other, besides for like the usual experience and so on, is industry knowledge. So if you work, if you do an ALSP stint for three months in one industry and then another and then another, that is valuable expertise that you have accrued. And for me, it was extremely valuable and rewarding, frankly. 

‍

Tyler Finn 

So, okay, we'll skip ahead then. When did you decide to go all in on in-house connect? 

‍

Shai Mehani 

I have a crazy story about that. 

‍

Tyler Finn 

Please. 

‍

Shai Mehani 

Maybe it's not so crazy, but it's crazier than me. 

‍

Tyler Finn 

We like crazy stories. 

‍

Shai Mehani 

So, all right, 2022, COVID, it was kind of a proof of concept time. And I saw a lot of, you know, at the end of the year, I'm looking at the numbers and I'm like, wow, like this is a business. This is truly a business and there's so much potential and the same time You know, I'm working at Altice. I love my job at Altice. I was there for the for four years I think at this point as long as I've ever been anywhere so Which was wonderful frankly because I kept a year here at the tech startup a year and a half at Saks Then I had the axiom like stance so to just make a home was really, really nice. When 2023 rolls around, I started to think heavily about doing this full-time. And I had a lot of confidence in In-House Connect as a business based on the partners and their reactions and their appreciation. They gave me strength, frankly. I wasn't so sure what would be the future of in-house connect, but… 

‍

Tyler Finn 

Were they paying you at this point? 

‍

Shai Mehani

Yeah. 

‍

Shai Mehani 

It's hard to get get law firms to part with their money. You know that's when you know you have a good business.

‍

Tyler Finn 

Maybe I'll say that for the pet peeve part, but It was very hard. I'll tell you Jessica Wynn 

‍

Tyler Finn 

Sure. 

‍

Shai Mehani 

Jessica Wynn and and at the time Lexi on was like there was a were my first like sponsor. I mean, I had like one or two law firms before them, but like when they signed on and like, you know, supported us, that enabled me to take the next level. Not like quit my job, that was still early on, but that was like a huge boost. And I really owe her a lot of credit for helping us get over that hump. But 2023 rolls around. I'm loving in-house connect. It's my heart, it's my soul. I'm doing it all my free time and then some. And you know, things are annoying at me. Like I don't, the side hustle culture, right, was a real, it was a much more like thing back a year, whatever, two years ago then. Like when people were remote, you know, people had multiple jobs, and so I was never like that I in my heart I felt like Altice hired me They hired all of me a hundred percent of me, and if I can't give them a hundred percent like that's a problem And you know I kept like going on and on like and then and then what what happened was legal week so legal week was in New York City. It was in March, and that was like the first legal tech conference I attended where my goal was to promote In-House Connect. So I bought a ticket, Shy from In-House Connect, CEO is my title, and I go and I'm like trying to talk to these people at the booths and like they want nothing to do with me. They want real business, not like trying to give me business, but I went around and I introduced myself as shy from in-house connect Mm-hmm, and you know I look people not shy from in-house connect shake their hand and everything and I went back home and I flipped open my laptop to be Shai from Maltese and I felt like I was not Shai from Maltese anymore. Like I'm like I'm not this person. I am not like you know not this person So I I was like very, very wobbly. Then the next day, we'll talk about this later on. Sorry, I keep preempting the questions. 

‍

Tyler Finn 

It's teasers, people to continue to listen. 

‍

Shai Mehani 

Yes, yes. Stick around, you'll learn more. I go to services, right? Jewish, I pray at synagogue every day, every morning. That's how I start my day. And my rabbi, after services, he gives a class usually talks about the weekly bible portion right so we learn we get inspiration we learn things to do what not to do and so on and we talk about holidays jewish holidays and passover was like coming up right and another thing is we celebrate the new moon right new moon. I call it rush Hodesh. It's the first of the month okay, it's like a special thing in in Judaism and his class, I remember it so clearly he was saying that each month has a special power Right and the month that we were that it was there was rush Hodesh Nissan which is the first of the month of Nissan and that is the That is the month of Passover and the Jews got out of Egypt Right he was saying that the power of the month is the power to break free of bondage The break out of your chains and he said the first of the month is when that power is the most strongest and I'm like listen to this. I'm like, okay like I needed a sign. Like when I should I should when should I do this? Well, you know, how should I do it? And I'm hearing them I Rabbi tell me this and I'm like I got to do this. 

‍

Tyler Finn 

You gotta go for it I got to go for it. 

‍

Shai Mehani 

So I also had a buddy Ariel who was like peppering me like when you're gonna quit when you're gonna quit when you're gonna Yeah, he had a big influence on this decision, too But once I heard that I'm like, it's the first of the it's the first of the month, you know Special power break free of bondage. I'm gonna break free of this of my I Loved my job, but yeah time to to set the wheels in motion.

‍

Tyler Finn 

That's fantastic. That's a great story. 

‍

Shai Mehani 

So I tapped into the Zodiac. It was the scariest thing I ever did, like bothering my boss out of nowhere. Like it was pretty quiet and calm for years and years. And I'm like, hey, can we talk? And he's like, well, what's going on? And like, I told him.

‍

Tyler Finn 

How did that go? I'm always in. I don't ask this that often, but I should ask it more because it's well I think it's important to quit a job. Well, yeah as as both of us maybe I've seen with layoffs before companies don't always part with you in the best of ways or as well as they I Think that they should or they can right is as well as is within their power to do I guess is what I would say

but I mean it's also hard because people don't have a ton of experience quitting usually when they do it for the first or the second time and so… 

‍

Shai Mehani

It wasn't so bad. So I you know, I think I was like like I'm like what how is this gonna go? What am I gonna say? And I and I and I and what I came up with and this gave me like the calmness to proceed I basically said like look I'm gonna say that That this is how it went. I said like look I I've been you know, I have this group on the side, in-house connect, I wanna take it more seriously and I wanna just do it 100% of the time. I know, it was a sensitive time because I did data privacy and the CPRA at the time was gonna go into effect in July of that year. And we're getting. 

‍

Tyler Finn 

Or so they said. 

‍

Shai Mehani 

Yeah, yes, or so they said exactly everything changes with California But it was but it was we were like changing the privacy policies and doing all this stuff And and I'm like look I know this is out of nowhere is out of the blue But please I'm gonna stay here and work as long as until you find a replacement once you find a replacement, I'm off and we'll leave his friends, and I felt like that was good, you know, like, I'll give him as much notice as you know, you find somebody you like, you hire them, and I'll go. And that's what ended up happening. I ended up leaving in August. And yeah, and it was great. They replaced me with two people, not just one, I must say. But it was it was great. And we left his friends. 

‍

Tyler Finn 

Before we turn to your faith, which I really do want to talk about with you, I'm curious if there was anybody who you felt like really supported you through this journey of Going all-in on on in-house connect if there were any people in your life who were who were essential to that To your ability to to make that leap. Yeah. Yeah. 

‍

Shai Mehani 

It's funny. I I knew my wife would be nervous and my in-laws would be nervous frankly that was like I'm not even worried about my parents Because you know I know they trust me 100% but my in-laws so like before I did it I kept saying like I kind of like prepared them. Yeah mentally like look. I'm gonna do this at some point, I don't know when but that are so like I got them ready my wife. You know I got her mentally ready as well So you know I knew I had their blessing, and I just and I just went ahead and did it but it's funny I don't I don't have like a direct mentor I have like I take inspiration from lots of people and I you know get advice all the time on lots of different things but nothing nobody is like okay you should do this you should do that. 

Tyler Finn 

That's fine not everybody needs uh yeah and and as let's talk about one of the things that I think does guide you and that is really important to you is your faith. And I've noticed this in the sense of you setting, I don't know if I call them boundaries because I don't know if they're necessarily boundaries, but it's more like this is a priority for me. And so I'm not going to be available like on this day of this week or at this time or I can't do that because I have to catch this flight home because I need to be home to be with my family, right? A lot of people won't do that or they won't take it to that extent. So, I don't know, just tell us a little bit about it and we'll, see where this goes.

‍

Shai Mehani

I was interested that you noticed that actually. When did you notice? 

‍

Tyler Finn 

I don't know. I think one time I did, maybe I asked to reschedule a call for a certain day or I said, you know, oh, could we do the event this week? And you said, no, we can't do the event that week because I need to be in New York for this. I don't remember what the event was or what the religious holiday was at the time. But I noticed that. And I think it takes a certain level of courage, actually, to be willing to sort of draw that line.

‍

Shai Mehani 

So like I said before, I'm Jewish, I'm observant. I observe the Sabbath. I observe the the holidays And and and it's wonderful, but I wasn't always this way. It's it's really funny in sacks, I sat next to a lovely young lady who was observant right I wasn't observant at the time, but she was and I was she sat right next to me and I would see her leave early right on Fridays. I'm still working. She's leaving early because she had the courage to Insist on you know or to set that boundary right and I felt like so stupid, I remember like walking out and I'm like still here You know what I mean like I'm still working And I that was such a regret of mine frankly so when I went to the next like what didn't apply really to the axiom Like roles, but sure but when I joined Altice, I said, you know a friend it was a very it was a very tough I wouldn't say tough but for me it was difficult and I know a lot of people struggle with this because the the high holidays are like crunched in September and October and it's like Monday Tuesday I'm out and then the next Monday Tuesday amount and then I'm there but the Wednesday I'm out and then Monday Tuesday again and Monday Tuesday again, and then I'm not and then I'm working for like six months straight, you know, with no breaks. But right to go in there and to make that request extremely, extremely hard. I'm very, very fortunate that my boss, Bill Heberer from Altice, was excellent, super understanding, never gave me a hard time about it and really I think, you know, whoever, whatever, whoever the people out there, if they're listening, if they are in the similar shoes Take your time take your holidays. Whatever. They are like it doesn't matter like something's come before Before work and again off of that experience when I got laid off I was like I'm not putting the company first anymore. It's time to carve that out these days Right like I get to say I have a lot more say sure when things happen and in fact I actually print out the the yearly schedule like we have a calendar with the dates and the times and everything and so Like I base off my webinar schedule my in-person event schedule off of that calendar I see like because it's happened in the past where I didn't use the calendar And we had a there was a holiday and I booked a webinar on and I had to move everything around So I put that first and I think that to be to lead a healthy balanced life, you have to put you know, you have to prioritize things work will be there like 

‍

Tyler Finn 

It will always be there always Will always be there exactly. 

‍

Shai Mehani

Yeah, but those you know, you miss a holiday. You can't get it back You know, you gotta put that stuff first. So it's it's fine. I'm smiling that you that you noticed. Yeah. And I appreciate the opportunity to talk more about it. 

‍

Tyler Finn 

Yeah. Where do you hope to take in house connect over the next couple of years? Like what's what's next for you and IHC?

‍

Shai Mehani 

It's a it's a great question. And I, I, again, I wish I had a better and you know, I wish so many people… 

‍

Tyler Finn 

You're still figuring it out. That's okay. 

‍

Shai Mehani

I like to keep things flexible and I like to adapt. I like to keep it like water. I like to be flexible, I like to adapt. I know somebody smarter than me said that before, but I like to keep it flexible and adapt. I don't have a, I don't necessarily have like a defined end goal, I would say. There's definitely things that I want to do and then I'm you know grinding towards So I and I'm happy to talk about that. I mean first and foremost. I want the experience to be like excellent. I want everybody who tunes into webinar to love it. I want their experience on the website to be great I want it them to get their CLEs fast, and you know there's so much to do with there And I'm not there yet. My website, I need to start over. We've outgrown the website. It crashes a lot, all of just recently. And that's a whole nother thing. There's a lot of improvements to be made there. Ultimately, I want to get to the point where every in-house lawyer knows in-house connect exists and knows that if they want to feel connected, if they want to learn more, if they want to participate in great mixers. They want to be inspired from their career Join in house connect. It's free. It's easy. It's perfect for what you're going through right now like that That's my ultimate goal. I you know, we're at 50 000, uh subscribers I want to get to a hundred thousand. 

‍

Tyler Finn 

Do you have a little countdown clock in your eye?  

‍

Shai Mehani 

You know what I have. Uh, I have uh, I have like an email my mail chimp. You know me how many we have and I'm like today is a good day You know it's kind of like homeostasis a little bit. It's it's really hard. It's really hard to grow Especially you know we're very very big and we do a lot of stuff and whatever it's extremely extremely hard to grow So I'm in it. I'm in it for the long long time long game. I love being an entrepreneur. I love being in charge I think frankly as I'm coming to discover I love being in charge, and I love you know just being a part of this conversation Mm-hmm you go sell your company you get a boatload of money I don't know my wife will spend it before I get to you know You can see it, but in all seriousness you sell the company and you're out of the conversation And I like I like being in a part of the conversation So I'm not I'm not looking to to you know sell anytime soon. I want to grow it And ultimately I guess to really answer your question besides for getting to a hundred thousand subscribers Yeah, which who know a frame. I don't know if I'll ever get there frankly, but fingers crossed. I think conferences, I think there's an opportunity for more conferences. The way we do our webinars is special, the way we do our mixers is special. I want to do conferences that are special, that are excellent. I've never done a conference before, so I'm hesitant to add that to my plate, frankly, because I got a lot going on. But that's the next thing I want to tackle. 

‍

Tyler Finn 

We've got our SpotDraft Summit next week as we're recording this. Conferences are big, but you can do it. I have no doubt.

‍

Shai Mehani

I think that there's a lot. You know, it's funny, I really enjoyed the episode with Kevin and Matt, right? Kevin Cohn and Matt from Priory. And Kevin said something interesting. He said that there's too many conferences, but I think he's talking about legal ops conferences.

‍

Tyler Finn 

There are a lot of legal ops conferences, yes. 

‍

Shai Mehani

I don't think that there's any great in-house conferences, frankly. I mean, not the way that I want to do it. 

‍

Tyler Finn 

I mean I'm biased. I like the L-suite ones, but that is a different approach than than your approach And I've never been to ACC. I can't I can't speak to that. Yeah, there's there's a lot of

there's been a profusion of legal ops communities And I think his point about seeing a little bit of consolidation there is is a good one I could see I've never been to legal week I could see an in-house connect conference in New York doing very well though. Yeah,  

‍

Shai Mehani 

I agree we have you know these mixers are illuminating for me because What I constantly hear is oh, I've seen your face a hundred times Yeah, I'm not sure what to say like I kind of had like this weird like oh, you know I could see you too my zoom host capabilities without weirds people else Definitely we have a lot of fans yeah, and I want to bring them together. And I also want to create a memorable experience. I like the mixers are fantastic, but they're like, you know, one night. They're three hours. Let's do something more substantial. So I'm definitely definitely game and we'll see. We'll see. 

‍

Tyler Finn 

If folks want to get connected, is LinkedIn the right place to go? Is the old website that may be a new version of the website soon they're like where should people go if they want to get connected and learn more. 

‍

Shai Mehani

Go to in-house connect org Check out our upcoming events. I would say that's like the best way To connect and to get involved and certainly if you want to reach out to me Just connect with me on LinkedIn love LinkedIn, and then you know it is what you make it right? So you know you tune into our events participate in the chat you make some friends you tend to mixer right and attend the conference who knows yeah There's other things I want to do blogs and interviews and so on there's a lot a lot more we can we can take with it, so I would say start with our webinars and we'll go from there. 

‍

Tyler Finn 

All right as we start to wrap up Few traditional closing questions for you the first one is your favorite part of your day to day. 

‍

Shai Mehani

Yeah, yeah. I like talking to people from all different areas. I just like to have a Zoom with the law firm partner and then a legal tech company.

‍

Tyler Finn 

Yeah. 

‍

Shai Mehani 

And maybe an IHC, you know advice of strategy of You know Energizing people. Yeah, like just no no day is ever the same And I just like being a part of the conversation Mm-hmm. I don't know if that answer answers your question. 

‍

Tyler Finn 

It does. I did something that I love about besides this, It's something that I love about my my job as well. Do you have a professional pet peeves? 

‍

Shai Mehani 

Yeah I've been think you know, it's funny when you asked when I when you asked this question before I was like I don't have any pet peeves. I'm a calm relaxed calm guy. Then I thought about it. I'm like, I like then I found too many So I'm gonna this is my I guess I'll go with this pet as my as my pet peeve. I really don't like the term recovering lawyer. Hmm. Okay, I don't like it. I don't like it. I number one like What who hurt you? You know that a recovering lawyer, was it really that bad to be an attorney like that's like number one. Mm-hmm. I know it's a stressful Profession, but it's an amazing profession. We when I was doing matrimonial law I got these kids out of a really bad situation and I got to put them in the arms of their Grandparents at Christmas time, right? I hated matrimonial law. Don't get me wrong. It was hard. It was tough. The people were there everything was really really hard, but I still you know, you got to find the good you got to find the You know the good parts in these things. So I just feel like you know when you say you're a recovering lawyer You're like you're announcing to the world that you really really really regret going to law school And I just think like that's a that's a waste and often when they when this person says that they're a recovering lawyer It's like the first time you're meeting them. It's like hey. I'm sure I'm a recovering lawyer Yeah, and now I have to like be polite and like laugh at your at your it's a joke right? But I have to like ha ha ha like yeah, yeah, definitely being a lawyer sucks, but I don't think being a lawyer sucks I think if you're lucky enough to practice at a high level to work with great people to work with a great company Really to maximize the opportunity of being an attorney. You're not gonna hate it You're gonna love it and you're gonna be thrilled by it and I just hate like that's like the posture That's like the energy you are putting out there. It's like I regret I regret going to law school. I was like hey, my name is Shai I regret going to law school like no there's so much more to you, then you're recovering lawyer stance.

‍

Tyler Finn 

You're an entrepreneur and a lawyer. 

‍

Shai Mehani

Exactly 

‍

Tyler Finn 

You're not practicing anymore exactly like that answer like I think that I think That might start a little bit of debate, and I think it'd be a good one to have. Yeah, I like that answer. 

‍

Shai Mehani 

Throw some grenades, right? I want this to be the number one abstract episode ever. 

‍

Tyler Finn 

A book that you would recommend to our listeners. 

‍

Shai Mehani 

So I've been, I like biographies.

‍

Tyler Finn 

Me too. 

‍

Shai Mehani

You know, I think that's just the best, those are like the best books. I'm reading Sam Walton Made in America. 

‍

Tyler Finn 

Okay. 

‍

Shai Mehani

Yeah, I enjoy that book. I Read Charlie Munger. He wrote a book recently. That was excellent Henry Kissinger wrote a book as well He had like profiled six or seven leaders and that was really interesting those books I find enormously valuable. So anything leadership biography wise I highly highly recommend.  

‍

Tyler Finn 

A final question for you my traditional closing question It's if you could look back on your days of being a young lawyer just getting started maybe as a clerk or doing matrimonial law Something that you know now that you wish that you'd known back then.

‍

Shai Mehani 

I so this really made me smile all your questions make me smile Tyler. We should do this more. But I'm like laughing because like looking back at my career, it's such a hodgepodge. Like I wouldn't even know what to – if I could go back into DeLorean and say, hey, Shai, I wouldn't know what I would even say to be honest with you because it makes no sense. The only thing I say – I would say and this is tongue in cheek is buy more Bitcoin, you know buy Bitcoin, that's honestly like the number one thing I would say but like truly like looking in hindsight I really feel like everything happens for a reason every at every point in my career I was exactly where I needed to be when I needed to be there Every and it wasn't fun like the beginning was not fun at all But I needed to be there. I needed to learn I needed to get my feet wet, I need to, you know, get tough, whatever it is. Ultimately, everything brings you to where you are right now. And I don't have, I don't have any like regrets, I don't have anything I would do differently, I would do it all pretty much the same. Maybe, you know, so some girls I would avoid me. But that's not professional. But I I think that everything happens for a reason so If I could go back and like tell young shy something it would be like you know trust everything happens for a reason and just Trust trust that you are where you're supposed to be exactly when you're supposed to be there. 

‍

Tyler Finn 

I love the energy that you bring to your webinars to your events to this podcast Shai, thank you so much for joining me for this episode of the abstract. 

‍

Shai Mehani

Thank you so much Tyler. It's a pleasure. I love your jacket, by the way. 

‍

Tyler Finn 

Thank you. A find in Paris. 

‍

Shai Mehani

Yeah. Love it. That's my favorite. My wife and I, our favorite place. 

‍

Tyler Finn 

It's a beautiful place. Yeah. City of love. 

‍

Shai Mehani

City of love. 

‍

Shai Mehani 

This is a beautiful place, too. 

‍

Tyler Finn 

City of light. 

‍

Shai Mehani

Thank you so much, Tyler. 

‍

Tyler Finn 

Thank you for coming. And to all of place, too. City of light.

‍

Shai Mehani

‍Thank you so much, Tyler.

‍

Tyler Finn 

Thank you for coming. And to all of listeners we hope to see you next time.