Introduction: 0:00

• Introducing Jenn McCarron, Director of Legal Operations & Technology at Netflix and president of the Corporate Legal Operations Consortium (CLOC). 
• Hosting the Cloc Talk podcast.
• Growing as Head of Legal Tech at Spotify and Senior Technology Program Manager at Cisco.

Advancing the legal ops industry at CLOC as President of the Board of Directors: 3:35

• Re-ratifying the organization’s strategy, vision and mission to grow the legal ops profession.
• Emphasizing the value of community, content, and conversation. 
• Introducing a career framework for CLOC’s more than 7,000 members.

Getting started with CLOC: 7:22

• Gathering the confidence to share your work to your bosses and peers.
• Presenting at CLOC’s first NYC meetup in front of 50 other legal ops professionals from across the East Coast.
• Leaving such a good impression that you are recruited for years to come.
• Demonstrating the importance of community.

Unpacking the mindset of service and giving back: 11:21

• Growing up in a service-oriented military and police household.
• Considering a career in social work. 
• Turning CLOC into a big tent community that encourages putting yourself out there.

Lessons learned as CLOC president: 14:23

• Recognizing how long it takes for change to manifest within any system.
• Book recommendation: Through the Glass Ceiling to the Stars: The Story of the First American Woman to Command a Space Mission by Col. Eileen M. Collins, USAF.
• Learning a complex system through failure and turbulence.
• Understanding that tech is less simple than just hierarchy and doing what your bosses ask.

Advice for professionals getting their start in legal ops: 17:24

• Worry less and understand that it’s all going to work out.
• Sitting still for a while and allowing change to take shape.
• Staying at a job unless it isn’t a good fit.
• Incorporating mechanisms for reflection (like retros) into your professional life.
• Improving your messages by always rewriting them.

Hiring detail-oriented staff with stakeholder management skills: 22:07

• Knowing which core competencies you are capable of teaching. 
• Understanding that communication skills can be improved but hires will still need to be able to execute a project.
• Biasing towards project management skills.

Recommending platforms for learning project management skills: 26:04

• Learning on the job from real business examples is always the best teacher.
• Continuing mentorships through every stage of your career.
• De-emphasizing certifications as the ultimate door opener.
• Leaning on your community to teach you skills you don’t have yet.

Dealing with the loneliness of a one-of-one role: 30:25

• Finding gaps in common language with members of other teams.
• Using CLOC as a resource for discussion, solutions, and getting grounded.
• Fighting back negative thinking and imposter syndrome by iterating on shared problems with your legal ops peers.

Legal ops as a business team vs legal ops as a legal team: 37:06

• Considering whether slow adoption by legal will result in business taking over.
• Stressing the importance of legal ops’ domain experience and ability to connect legal to tech.
• Need legal experts in order to work with legal teams.

Focusing on the future: 41:02

• Building a strong succession plan at Netflix.
• Always taking calls from recruiters to understand how the job market is changing.
• Discussing job structure and compensation changes in recruitment calls with your manager.
• The importance of optionality in future career paths.
• Holding roles where your manager lets you leave to tour in a play for six weeks.

Maintaining an after-hours music career: 46:47

• Seeing pop songwriting as an exercise in simplifying.
• Releasing a new song every month under the name “ønes.”